My Group’s Time Thief Revealed – Chronology iPad App Review
I was curious to see how long combat encounters last in my Riddleport campaign, and how long my group takes on each turn to do our actions. I surfed around for a long time, looking for the right timer software, and then I finally found it, for the iPad.
This is a review of how long we took to play out our last combat, through the eyes of Chronology for the iPad.
Who’s taking so damn long?
Combat in our group runs at a pretty good clip. But I want it to go faster. I would like one more combat squeezed into our sessions without sacrificing any other encounter types or making sessions longer. That means making combat faster.
But first I wanted to learn where time spent in combat was going. I wanted to see who the culprits are. You know, the slow decision makers, the inattentive, and the dreaded rules lawyers. How much time were they leeching out of the fun?
I hunted down the Chronology iPad app. At the time of purchase it was $5. It had the features I needed:
- Multiple timers
- At least 7 timers (one for each player plus myself)
- Count up (most just count down)
- Each stop and start (one touch, any player, anytime)
As a bonus, Chronology has other great features, too. It has countdown timers for when I put time limits on turns or for special encounter setups. “You have 25 minutes to stop the ritual. Go!”
You can also save the timers you set up as a set, and load that set anytime. That is awesome, because I can just load the D&D set of 7 times at game time and start using it. I also have a set saved for my internet business, so I can see exactly where my time is going each day. Saved sets let me swap my D&D and business timesheet sets out in two click.
Resetting a single timer or all is a single click.
You can disable sleep, which I found handy during the session. It would have been a pain logging in again after sleep mode kicked in, or disabling sleep mode each time I want to use this app.
For countdown timers, there are alerts and background alerts. You can even set what chime each timer makes when it reaches zero.
Another great feature: simultaneous timers. Last session I only had one timer running at a time, because it was only one person’s turn at a time. However, I was frequently involved in player turns, making players wait while I decided or researched something. So, next session I will turn my timer on while a player’s timer is running when I am spending session time during their turn too.
You can also cascade timers, wrap timers, and auto reset timers. I do not plan on using those for RPG, but they are there if you need them.
Oh, and you can adjust the current count of any timer. A couple times I forgot to start a timer or I left one running when it should have been stopped. It was easy editing a timer and changing its current time.
Was it disruptive?
Players immediately noticed I was timing them. Nobody complained. I mentioned I was also timing myself. That seemed fair.
My Information Overkill system when GMing looks like this:
- iPad to my left
- Paper notebook and pen in front of me
- Laptop to my right
- Second monitor raised on a side table beside the laptop, for players
It’s a vice. Move along, nothing guilty to see here.
With the iPad right on my left (?), managing timers took no time at all (punny!). Earlier this year I had considered other options, including PC timers, stopwatch, and sand timers. They all had drawbacks that were too much for my tastes. I like to GM fast without props and devices getting in the way.
Fortunately, operating Chronology was a two tap operation each time. Current player stop, new player start. Round and round we went.
What did I expect?
I made a theory before the game about who the biggest time culprits were in combats. It is always good to check your own perception of reality against some facts. Real objective like.
I fingered two players for different reasons, and expected the total time spent on their turns to be equal to the total of everyone else’s combined.
For this experiment, I only tallied total time per player for the combat. Getting into round-by-round times is possible, but trickier and I wanted the timing of my first timed combat kept simple.
I also did not tally the type of actions. For example, how much time was spent making decisions versus calculating results versus rules checks versus chit chat and inattentiveness.
When it was each player’s turn, I said to the table, “It’s now your turn, [character name].” I tried to catch the player’s eye while saying this, but regardless, once my announcement was over the timer began. If a player was distracted, it would just add to their time used.
Two players had to leave the table for the call of nature. I decided not to keep their timers going in these cases. I wanted to be human about it, and this is still supposed to be just a fun game, after all. My players have excellent table etiquette, and everybody respects each other, so my goal with the timers was just to capture player turn length while at the table, playing.
The stats reveal the group’s time thief
What I found was unexpected. My theory was torn to shreds. Here are the results.
- Number of foes: 8 (a CR 10 demon who summoned a friend, so 2 CR10s, plus six bat swarms)
- Number of PCs: 7 – 5 (level 7) + 2 cohorts (level 5)
- Location: Large cavern with pillars for cover and poison spore fungus patches in certain areas
- Total time of combat: 77 minutes, 17 seconds
- Number of rounds: 6 until the foes were dead
- Crixus and his cohort: 12:59
- Velare and his cohort: 11:42
- Vigor: 9:19
- Fane: 6:25
- Hrolf: 3:03
- The demons and swarms: 34:14
Wow! The GM is the slowest player. Here I was thinking a couple players might be the culprits, when I should have been looking in the mirror the whole time.
I did not record how I spent my time. I just recorded my total time spent on my turn, or between player turns when I had to do something for the combat.
I manage all the initiative, but my system is so sleek it only takes seconds per round to operate, so that was not part of the slowdown.
Players are responsible for the rules – I almost never look them up. So I normally cannot blame that.
I included the initial combat setup in my time. Drawing the map, laying out the monster minis, and kicking off initiative. If memory serves, that took about five minutes. I expect that to be a new timer next game so I know for sure.
So what’s my excuse?
As the combat clock ticked upward I spotted the trend pretty fast. My turns were the longest. So I started paying attention while GMing to what I was doing that was taking so long.
It turns out (punny!) that it was a combo of lack of preparation and lack of knowledge of the game rules. Boo.
The demons had a number of spell and supernatural ability options. I did not research these before the game. So I caught myself hitting d20pfsrd.com and researching my options before deciding each demon’s actions.
Further, I had no familiarity with the swarm rules. Those critters have a lot of specific rules pertaining to them, so I looked those up several times during the combat.
Another factor, but a minor one, was not knowing what mini belonged to each PC. That caused me to hesitate several times. I’d figure out a demon’s action, then realize I had mistaken a mini for another PC, and go back to the drawing board.
The stats revealed many other golden nuggets
First, player times were actually great. The slowest player only took 13 minutes, or 17% of total combat time.
With five players at the session, plus GM, if everybody received equal spotlight time, each person should receive 17% of the spotlight.
That will be my goal moving forward. Getting everybody 17% or equal share of the spotlight. At the same time, if each person’s turn is not wasteful, but not high-pressured either, we’d have fair and fun combats.
Next, the players with cohorts took longest. For one player, this is session #2 with a cohort in combat. For another player, it was his first combat with a cohort. I am not ready to draw conclusions here yet, especially because their time ratios were within my goal range.
Could be the cohorts caused extra time expense. However, the two player characters themselves are complex. One is a wizard, so lots of options to consider each round. The other is a min/maxed fighter who usually gets multiple attacks per round and needs to maneuver in place to get them.
So, it could be just the PCs causing more time needs, not the cohorts so much. We’ll see.
Another interesting tid bit is the times for Hrolf and Fane. The times are low, so I am worried about how much fun those players are having. Fane’s player records session notes on our wiki, so he is keeping himself busy, at least. Whether that is because his turns are so quick or whether he enjoys session logging, I’ll find out.
Hrolf was a brand new PC that session. The player retired his previous PC because he wanted to play a different type of character. Could be Hrolf was just figuring things out in his first combat, and will have more involvement in future fights.
However, it could also be the character is simple and has no other options.
A third possibility is the player p0wns the rules, is super efficient, or plans his turns in advance so there’s no delay when the timer starts for him.
I will follow up with Hrolf’s player between session to get his thoughts and reactions. If the player is super efficient, we will find out why and share the tips (and expectation) with the whole group. If the PC is just simple, then I have a couple ideas on how to make his combats more interesting.
Last, the whole combat took about an hour and twenty minutes. That was a combat with 7 combatants on the players’ side, and 8 on the GM’s. A 15 foe fight with sides being roughly equal in ability in 1:20 is good time in my books.
If that lazy GM would sharpen his pencil a bit, combat could go even faster!
Great news
Overall, this is the best possible news I could have received from the experiment. I cannot control the players. I can only control myself. If the opportunity for faster combats lies mostly within myself, then I have all kinds of options and ideas, and I can try them all because it’s all on me, within my control.
If it had turned out those one or two players I had initially fingered were at fault, I’d need to have some conversations, do some analysis with them, and work ongoing to shave time off their turns.
Instead, I just need to work on becoming a better GM. I also get a chance to try to get certain PCs more involved in combats so that we do an awesome trade of my time for theirs, keeping combat the same length or less.
For my group, with the current data at least, our challenge is not shorter combats as a whole, but shorter GM turns and longer PC turns.
I will let you know how it goes.
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May 23rd, 2011 at 2:27 pm
Cool experiment :-)
I guess you were using 4e? Do you think using B/X, or equivalent would have made things faster?
I’d like to see some timing in these areas too :-)
May 23rd, 2011 at 2:34 pm
Players or DMs can slow tihngs down in any edition but in 25 sessions of B/X D&D (the “Basic” & “Expert” sets from 1981), I have had parties of 4-8 characters fighting monsters in groups of similar size, and the longest encounter ever was about 15 minutes. So yes, the earlier editons play a lot faster, as there is less tracking of “conditions” and modifiers. It helps that my players often roll both the to-hit and the damage dice simultaneously.
May 23rd, 2011 at 2:37 pm
That is a FASCINATING experiment, and I look forward to hearing more results from this area.
Andy recently posted..Surprise- Surprise!
May 23rd, 2011 at 2:46 pm
@Jaap and Mike – We’re playing Pathfinder.
For combats of equal power on both sides, my group has said about an hour is a sweet spot. We enjoy all the options and complexities, so it’s not that we’re looking for a different game system with different combat rules.
I think we can put a big dent in things with a few tweaks.
@Andy – thanks Andy. Hopefully future results will be positive. :)
May 23rd, 2011 at 6:51 pm
Johnn, I didn’t mean to suggest you change games — I was trying to answer Jaap’s question.
Considering that you’re using a lot more ‘characters’ than any player, you might distribute some of your bookkeeping or rolling chores to players as a way to speed up your turn.
May 23rd, 2011 at 8:40 pm
Whoops, sorry Mike.
May 24th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
I have to said I read this with interest as I have similar issues with combat – and laughed my head off at the results! I then did a mental check and realised that the 2 players that i would have said would be slowest (because they’re not to hot on the rules and after 2 years still haven’t got the whole “bonuses of the same type don’t stack” concept) are actually pretty quick but yours truly usually slows things down, for the same reasons that you mention.
One thing that the GM has to do that the players don’t is concentrate during everyone else’s turn. You’re busy adjudicating and paying attention so you can’t start preparing your turn until everyone else is finished. So some slowness should be allowed, but it’s well worth the experiment to find out the culprit as you clearly didn’t know (and neither did I).
May 25th, 2011 at 1:15 am
Interesting experiment, but I know I am the slowest person at the table on account of my dyslexia. One of the worst things about it is that it really takes some time to crunch those numbers and process all that information (even adding up dice can take time) thanks to my dyslexia. It’s a big reason why I’ve taken the attitude of expertise over authority for Game Mastering – it means that I make the rules up, not the book, which has been a big boon as systems seem to have become increasingly complex with diminishing returns.
Take the encounter with the demons in your example, Johnn. You could have saved some time if you weren’t busy looking up the rules, and the key to that is simply don’t look up the rules. Use the swarm rules you think work and keep the game moving, and use the abilities that you do remember – anything you don’t remember probably isn;t that important, and you can easily put in more preparation for demons next time to puck up the rules you missed out. For creatures with a lot of options, you don’t necessarily need to learn how to use them all at once – just pick a few and use this as a means to characterise the encounter until the next time you use them. Never be afraid to recycle your old encounters to improve your learning either…
So, now you just need a good series to help you to learn be a better GM, Johnn… You got any ideas for that? ;)
Da’ Vane recently posted..The Gate Keeper Redux
May 25th, 2011 at 7:05 am
Johnn,
If the Total combat was 77 minutes, and you clocked in at 34 minutes. I’d say that you are occupying the correct amount of time. Especially if you were running a group that was equivelent in size to the players. Players should always be faster then the GM, but the GM should not take more then the same amount of time as the players.
Players- in general only play one character, and are intimately aware of their skills and powers.
Players- have time in between turns to plan.
GM’s are never gonna be as familiar with the powers and skills of the bad guys. Unless he is your main villan.
TheRandomDM recently posted..TableSmith Tuedays Part 4 – Displaying Mad Lib Tables
May 25th, 2011 at 7:39 am
That’s a really sweet timer app, and the touch screen seems much more convenient than a Web app if you could even find one. Great use for an iPad.
I wouldn’t want to play a character that could take six turns in 3:03. Even if I didn’t want a bunch of interesting strategic options, I would want a character interesting enough to add description or motivation to their actions and make the game more cinematic for everyone else.
I am very attuned to the drag that comes from a DM looking up all the rules and figuring all the strategies and calculating all the bonuses. I’m way too impatient with myself to make my players wait, even though they’re used to it and it’s baked into the system. Every monster has line after line of rules text hidden in its creature type and spell-like abilities, you just can’t run them on the fly.
I actually look up all the abilities ahead of time and write them on 3×5 cards (here’s a salt mephit and an allip). I realize this is kind of obsessive, but you guys appreciate obsession (like for example, all those screenshots you put together for this post). Being prepared really improves your game: for example, when one of my players got salt-blasted by a salt mephit and decided to roleplay washing his burning eyes out with his water-skin, I was able to add insult to injury by using the mephit’s “draw out moisture” ability to dry that up too. It wouldn’t have had the same pacing if I’d had to go to his entry and look the ability up, and I might not even have noticed it was a good tactic (it’s not even listed in his “special attacks” on d20pfsrd, it’s down at the bottom).
My impatience with long turns means taking more time on the rules would take away time for description, which I love. But you can’t expect every DM to make their own copies of all the monsters. I sure wish they could be written in a real-time-runnable state to begin with!
May 25th, 2011 at 7:41 am
Good experiment, Johnn. And really well written up.
You had the technology to make it work, and that’s a good tip for the rest of us. I generally don’t want technology at my Pen ‘n Paper game table (I scan and print and give them hard copy for that original gaming handouts experience) but _Chronology_ looks like a minimum distraction.
But I also have a player with a sharp mind and years of experience as a Business Analyst. He and I had agreed that it’d be good for him to bring his work skills (in his head) to my D&D4e sessions, but it was a normal session when he did so; I wasn’t aware of it, so I was DMing entirely normally. His analysis reached a similar conclusion to your own.
As GM, I was the one taking all the time.
I was working hard to keep the pace up as much as I could, and busy all the time. I ended the session tired but satisfied, but the rest of the guys were still a bit ‘meh’, mostly because the six of them each got relatively little spotlight time, and maybe a bit because I spent too much time on game mechanics for each player, which didn’t leave enough time for evocatively narrating their accomplishments. (I try to make up for this in the writeups on Obsidian Portal — see my link. It’s obviously not the same as having it right there in the session, but the guys do read about their own actions and say “Hey, I .was. pretty cool there, wasn’t I?!”)
Other sessions can be worse than that.
If I haven’t read the encounter and really grokked how every monster’s unique special powers are meant to be applied… in advance… twice… then it can be worryingly slow to pick their tactics. Even Minions are more dramatic if they’re run with optimised tactics, but sometimes — sigh — the players don’t want a fight to be dramatic, they want to slaughter a bunch of dumbed-down mooks so they can feel like badasses.
I’m taking a hiatus from 4e now. Standing back from it, I think if I go back to it I may well go for the radical adaptation of halving all monster HPs and doubling all their damages…
Cheers!
–Os.
May 25th, 2011 at 8:05 am
So far, there’s been a lot of “Me, too” in the comments on Johnn’s post and not a lot of suggested remedies. I hope to rectify that in the next 24 hours or so if all goes according to plan…
May 25th, 2011 at 7:08 pm
@Da’Vane: Hehe. Some of the rules I looked up were spells. Can’t fudge those.
@TheRandomDM: I could tell while GMing this particular combat I could be faster. My crew runs a pretty tight combat scene after years of working on it and learning a few tricks. If there’s more I think I can do to shave my time, though, I’m gonna explore options.
But I agree with you and others that the DM should not take the same time or less as a single average player.
@Noumenon: Obession is good. Keeps you focused. ;)
@Osric: I agree. Mastering the rules makes GMing so much faster.
@Mike: Let us know what you’re up to and how is goes!
May 25th, 2011 at 9:36 pm
@Johnn, one campaign I play in is based around Arena Combat, and almost every session is another episode in our rise up through the gladiatorial ranks, and we spend a lot of time in combat. The GM runs the same size group as the party, and it’s a constant, 15-30 minute wait for each player as we await our turn. One day I suggested to the GM that he assign the same initiative to his whole team. It sped up combat significantly as he didn’t have to re-evaluate the combat and tactics every initiative, but once a round.
TheRandomDM recently posted..TableSmith Tuedays Part 4 – Displaying Mad Lib Tables
May 25th, 2011 at 9:40 pm
@Johnn: Encounters never have spells, they have spell-like abilities. It’s just a short-hand for an ability that works exactly like the spell. Everything still applies – if you can’t remember that the creature has it, or how it works, then don’t use it and go with what you do know, and you’ll run faster.
But here’s another tip – create a cheat sheet for encounters in future. A lot of systems use complicated stat blocks using referential information in a condensed format, and a lot of GMs tend to keep things in that format. But the format isn’t designed for the GM, it’s designed to compress information and get around copyright issues to avoid redundancy – and GMs don’t have such issues. So go right ahead and decompress that material before play as part of your prep work. Create a mini-character sheet for them, if you have to. Working with material helps you learn it better, and by decompressing it, you get the opportunity to look up the rules you don’t know and jot down notes to make your game run better BEFORE you hit the game table.
I’ve actually seen some of the notes most GMs actually use – and it’s positively shocking. My experiences with getting amateurs to actually produce material for the Legend of Zelda Roleplaying Game and other projects actually involved a lot of time explaining to them that they couldn’t just hand in their GM notes and expect material to magically appear out of nowhere. GMs don’t tend to take notes in the form of publishable products, naturally, and this would be undesirable for the most part – but there are a few steps from publishable to GM notes, and these should be taken by the GM, and almost all GMs fail to do these in any real regard.
It’s quite amusing that you have provided tips for not taking on all aspects of campaign management, but the idea of taking notes on rules and actual content to help gameplay, to create cheat sheets for yourself, appears to have been completely overlooked on the basis that you can always look it up when you need it. An academic writing a paper to prepare for their thesis doesn’t leave this sort of research because they can “look it up when they need it.”
So why should the GM? Is it because note taking about the actual rules means a lot more focus on the game side of roleplaying, despite the fact that this is still the most important aspect of many roleplaying games today?
Da’ Vane recently posted..The Gate Keeper Redux
May 29th, 2011 at 9:45 am
Hi Johnn,
I thought this was a great article. One thought I had though, is, ‘what do the players think about timing’?
We are always our biggest critics, but if the players don’t have any issues with the time, might this just be a self imposed problem that is in fact not a problem? Within the article, you point out that the overall timing seems pretty good, and that you feel that combat moves at a pretty good clip. What are the reasons for needing o make it faster?
I am thinking about the law of diminishing returns. The closer u get to efficiency, the harder it is to enhance. On the other hand, are there other elements that might be a bigger slow down to the game, or could be better?
Just throwing out another perspective..
Lomythica
May 29th, 2011 at 12:14 pm
@Lomythica – You bring up a good point about self-criticism.
My group used to have horrendously long combats. They’d take hours. Over the years we’ve done a whole bunch of things to make them shorter. Now we’re in the minutes to 2 hour range, depending on complexity of the situation.
I am happy with that range, but I always quest for shorter combats so we can fit more encounters of any type into a session.
Good point about diminishing returns, as well. As we enjoy D&D combat, we are fine with it taking its own time, with lots of roleplaying and description and tactics strewn within.
However, I know I can be faster without sacrificing the quality of the game. Until I hit that sweet spot, I’ll always be adding to my array of tricks and techniques to make combat as sleek as possible.
It’s part of my personality to optimize things. Fortunately, my group also likes to savor the moment, so we end up being optimized and have great combats.
June 4th, 2011 at 9:50 am
Maybe I’m being too analytical, but given the single assumption that monsters are of comparable complexity and numbers to the PCs, then the average expected time a GM spends should be somewhere between 33% and 50% of the total combat time, depending on how “efficient” the PCs are in eliminating the threat. If they “focus fire” and eliminate single targets before moving to others, that yields the 33% number (since over the course of combat, the DM is running ~50% characters compared to the party – or 1/3 of all the combatants). If they don’t focus, then all the NPCs drop at the roughly the same time at the end of combat, and the DM is running half the characters involved. Given your result was 44%, that’s well within expected values. When you also factor in that players have time to plan their actions when it’s not their turn, and that players are almost guaranteed to be more familiar with their abilities than the DM is with monsters, it’s definitely nothing to be ashamed of.
My own experience in speeding up combat, the following seem to be the most valuable:
1. Know the rules. Cold. If you’re not spending time flipping through rulebooks, that’s a HUGE savings.
2. If the rules are overly complicated (grapple?), change them.
3. “Front load” your prep – spend time familiarizing yourself with monster abilities, come up with basic tactics ahead of time.
4. Simplify your NPCs – the basic assumption above is that NPCs are equally complex as PCs, if you invalidate that assumption, it can save a lot of time.
The only drawback to these techniques is that when you spend time on the other side of the screen, you’ll tend to use them and reduce your spotlight time. :)
June 4th, 2011 at 10:03 am
That’s great advice, Brandon. I actually used tip #3 last night at my game. I’ll post totals in the future, but the combat this time had an additional player, for a total of 8 PCs, and 5 critters including a CR 10 godslayer dragonspawn. The combat was very fast, and my time was 9:45.
March 22nd, 2012 at 8:46 am
Holy moley.
“A 15 foe fight with sides being roughly equal in ability in 1:20 is good time in my books.”
This is just crazy-town. This is in 8 minute fight in my games.
-C recently posted..On The Thursday Trick, Detours and Agency
February 4th, 2014 at 1:00 am
[…] Here’s some simple math: The number of combats in a game session times the number of rounds of combat in the average battle times the number of blows struck in a combat round by all participants including monsters and NPCs. Typical numbers might be 3 x 6 x 20 = 3600. Even one extra second each comes to an HOUR of playing time lost. And since the GM is handling multiple characters, most of this will be time the players spend waiting for him – as Johnn Four discovered a while back My Group’s Time Thief Revealed – Chronology iPad App Review. […]
March 13th, 2015 at 3:41 pm
I love the honesty and self-awareness of a GM owning his part in the problem. I’ve raised similar “combat takes too long” concerns to my players. My solution was a minute timer, then making them declare actions BEFORE rolling initiative each round. Immediate success. Meta-gaming and time wasting went way down! And combat sped up. Win.
Many times I’ve also failed to prepare properly, so I now need to step up like the players did.
Thanks!!!
March 13th, 2015 at 11:23 pm
Depending on the game system, initiative is usually rolled once per combat, but I know a lot of GMs who do as you do, Brian. But on everything else you’ve written, I have to agree, Brian. I appreciate your taking the time to comment – it’s always a pleasure when Campaign Mastery’s “back catalogue” gets some feedback, it makes it worthwhile keeping the comments open and dealing with the resulting spam! So you are very welcome :)
July 19th, 2016 at 12:27 am
[…] Johnn’s last blog post, “My Group’s Time Thief Revealed,” he described his discovery that the chief drag on the pace of his combat was the GM, despite his […]