Comments on: Shadow Levels: A way to roleplay the acquisition of Prestige Classes in D&D 3.x http://www.campaignmastery.com/blog/shadow-levels/ Expert tips and how-to's on every aspect of creating and running exceptional campaigns. Thu, 11 Mar 2010 19:19:39 -0500 hourly 1 By: Mike http://www.campaignmastery.com/blog/shadow-levels/comment-page-1/#comment-834 Mike Fri, 26 Jun 2009 04:06:03 +0000 http://www.campaignmastery.com/blog/?p=728#comment-834 @Robert: Glad you find the idea useful, Robert. The suggestion you make for creating a prestige class that confers the template is essentially the solution that the player has gone for in my campaign, though he found a prestige class created by someone else instead of creating his own. It's also similar to the technique offered by Lurkinggherkin in his comment. Another big question that occurs to me is why should a template with a +2 level adjustment take 5 or 10 levels to achieve? Of course, if you specify that the number of levels required to exist in the Prestige Class is the same as the level adjustment of the template, then our solutions all become more alike. In fact, the biggest distinction becomes when the actual transformation takes place and whether or not template consequences are spread out over the course of that transformation. @Robert: Glad you find the idea useful, Robert. The suggestion you make for creating a prestige class that confers the template is essentially the solution that the player has gone for in my campaign, though he found a prestige class created by someone else instead of creating his own. It’s also similar to the technique offered by Lurkinggherkin in his comment. Another big question that occurs to me is why should a template with a +2 level adjustment take 5 or 10 levels to achieve? Of course, if you specify that the number of levels required to exist in the Prestige Class is the same as the level adjustment of the template, then our solutions all become more alike. In fact, the biggest distinction becomes when the actual transformation takes place and whether or not template consequences are spread out over the course of that transformation.

]]> By: Mike http://www.campaignmastery.com/blog/shadow-levels/comment-page-1/#comment-829 Mike Fri, 26 Jun 2009 03:42:56 +0000 http://www.campaignmastery.com/blog/?p=728#comment-829 @Lurkingherkin: It's interesting that you've got something similar going. There aren't that many good solutions to the problem, in my opinion; and there hasn't been anything written about it that I've across. What are the differences between our approaches? The only thing that I don't really like about the solution you're using for templates is that sometimes there isn't really a partial solution to some of these. But on reflection, you could have a complete transformation and not get all the benefits right away. It would make 'sufferers' acutely vulnerable when they initially transform, though. @Nicholas: Most DMs handwave the roleplaying componant because of the difficulties in providing the right circumstances at the time they are needed, no matter where the characters happen to be and what they are doing. That's what this solution provides - a way to defer those when they aren't practical. At the same time, they give the DM the responsibility to provide those circumstances as soon as they can; the system will only work if the players can trust the DM to do so. Of course, of the players don't trust the DM, the campaign has bigger problems! @Lurkingherkin: It’s interesting that you’ve got something similar going. There aren’t that many good solutions to the problem, in my opinion; and there hasn’t been anything written about it that I’ve across. What are the differences between our approaches?

The only thing that I don’t really like about the solution you’re using for templates is that sometimes there isn’t really a partial solution to some of these. But on reflection, you could have a complete transformation and not get all the benefits right away. It would make ’sufferers’ acutely vulnerable when they initially transform, though.

@Nicholas: Most DMs handwave the roleplaying componant because of the difficulties in providing the right circumstances at the time they are needed, no matter where the characters happen to be and what they are doing. That’s what this solution provides – a way to defer those when they aren’t practical. At the same time, they give the DM the responsibility to provide those circumstances as soon as they can; the system will only work if the players can trust the DM to do so. Of course, of the players don’t trust the DM, the campaign has bigger problems!

]]> By: Robert http://www.campaignmastery.com/blog/shadow-levels/comment-page-1/#comment-828 Robert Fri, 26 Jun 2009 03:22:44 +0000 http://www.campaignmastery.com/blog/?p=728#comment-828 Man, those Shadow Levels are a good idea! Our current game is definitely of the "kick in the door" style so we just lvl up in whatever we meet the mechanical prereqs for whenever we want, but this will be a great way to do it when we do a more RP focused game later. Also, instead of creating shadow levels to apply templates, you could just create a prestige class that does it in increments, like the Dragon Disciple. Over the 10 levels of that PrC, you end up getting pieces of the Half-Dragon template a little bit at a time. When you are finished, you have gained the Half-Dragon template. This may take a bit more work, since you will have to make up your own prestige class, add some non-template abilities to it, and balance it, but IMO it is the most fun way. Man, those Shadow Levels are a good idea! Our current game is definitely of the “kick in the door” style so we just lvl up in whatever we meet the mechanical prereqs for whenever we want, but this will be a great way to do it when we do a more RP focused game later.

Also, instead of creating shadow levels to apply templates, you could just create a prestige class that does it in increments, like the Dragon Disciple. Over the 10 levels of that PrC, you end up getting pieces of the Half-Dragon template a little bit at a time. When you are finished, you have gained the Half-Dragon template. This may take a bit more work, since you will have to make up your own prestige class, add some non-template abilities to it, and balance it, but IMO it is the most fun way.

]]> By: Nicholas http://www.campaignmastery.com/blog/shadow-levels/comment-page-1/#comment-827 Nicholas Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:06:18 +0000 http://www.campaignmastery.com/blog/?p=728#comment-827 I love this idea. Most DMs I've played with simply hand waved the character requirements away, but it can be so much fun going through it. The only one I really got to experience is the drunken master's requirement of going out drinking with a drunken master and not ending up passed out, in jail or dead. <abbr><em>Nicholas’s last blog post..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/DungeonMastering/~3/zfNziyxHEP8/dm-dilemma-my-party-kicks-too-much-ass">DM Dilemma: My Party Kicks Too Much Ass</a></em></abbr> I love this idea. Most DMs I’ve played with simply hand waved the character requirements away, but it can be so much fun going through it. The only one I really got to experience is the drunken master’s requirement of going out drinking with a drunken master and not ending up passed out, in jail or dead.

Nicholas’s last blog post..DM Dilemma: My Party Kicks Too Much Ass

]]> By: Lurkinggherkin http://www.campaignmastery.com/blog/shadow-levels/comment-page-1/#comment-826 Lurkinggherkin Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:28:24 +0000 http://www.campaignmastery.com/blog/?p=728#comment-826 Spooky. You know, I am using an almost identical solution to the same problem! The way I handle templates, though, is to break the benefits down into a level progression. PCs can acquire a template by allocating earned xp levels to the template just like any other class. Some templates might force the character to spend their future level increments on buying the template (eg Lycanthropy). Others might allow the player to choose to allocate their levels as and when they wish. <abbr><em>Lurkinggherkin’s last blog post..<a href="http://www.covengaming.org/wordpress/?p=408">Quest For The Hanging Glacier - Character Sketch: Albrigon</a></em></abbr> Spooky. You know, I am using an almost identical solution to the same problem!

The way I handle templates, though, is to break the benefits down into a level progression. PCs can acquire a template by allocating earned xp levels to the template just like any other class. Some templates might force the character to spend their future level increments on buying the template (eg Lycanthropy). Others might allow the player to choose to allocate their levels as and when they wish.

Lurkinggherkin’s last blog post..Quest For The Hanging Glacier – Character Sketch: Albrigon

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