Comments on: Say Yes, but Get There Quick

By: Loz NEWMAN

Loz NEWMAN — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 14:31:29 +0000

It can be even better to avoid being in the situation of having to say no in the first place :
I very often add comments to players planning sessions prefaced with the words “Your character(s) know(s) that [insert information tidbit here]. ” This directs their plans somewhat (allowing you to mentally prepare better for the encounter), and allows them to plan for pitfalls their characters should know/think about. This is especially true when the *characters* are supposed to be more intelligent/better educated than the *players*. It cuts down on “Damn the GM mouse-trapped us” comments and keeps those creative juices bubbling along nicely.

By: Profile Hits

Profile Hits — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 14:05:30 +0000

Hi, this is a great site, and very well thought out and well written.

Best Regards and Best of Luck

By: Guidance

Guidance — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 23:39:59 +0000

Great Tips. I am very open but sometimes quite tight with a straight yes. I require most plans that veer from “logical” expectations to have their execution described by the players as if it were going be in a book to have any chance of success for which a i give them a bonus depending on how good it was giving them a better, fair or even superior chance of success.

This really gets my players thinking and in to the game. Love it.

By: Nicholas

Nicholas — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 17:12:57 +0000

You hit on a good point in the "campaign derailment" section. Often GMs say no because they have a specific idea in their head of how they want the situation to go. It's sad to throw that away but sometimes you have to. The general criteria I use is that if the players solution makes sense I need to allow it, even if it isn't as cool as what was in my head. To give them credit, sometimes they come up with stuff cooler than what I thought of! Nicholas’s last blog post..4 Epic Campaign Premises for Badass PCs

By: Skeeter

Skeeter — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 22:14:46 +0000

Sometimes my players are a little too clever for their own good and I have to say “no” or throw the campaign away. I’ve been very thankful a couple times as a player when the DM has said “no” to one of my hairbrained ideas.

That said, saying “yes” can certainly lead to some memorable situations. The door to one particular dungeon was trapped; the party hadn’t searched it for traps, but had assumed it was and stoneshaped their way around it. I could have said “no” to their way of avoiding the door quite easily, but instead took the opportunity to have one of the bad guys use mind control in the midst of a battle to get one of the PCs to go through the trapped door. He ended up getting hit by the trap twice in the middle of a tough combat rather than dealing with the trap on its own with no distractions.

By: Friday Jones

Friday Jones — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 07:46:17 +0000

I have some cautions about this. In principle yes. Say yes as much as you can, whenever you can. Use no for devastation only. BUT, inexperienced players can run away with things, and one must be prepared to gently curtail this. Reminding them that they can do anything is useful, but not always adequate, I have exposed the world to players again and again in entirely other ways than they had anticipated. I know that players feel trapped into "the plot", or alternatively are not sure that they are "on plot" at all. Either thing isn't good, I'm not the greatest GM in the world so it happens to me. Having said this, this is nothing as revealing as telling players what the alternative paths could have been. I'm lucky, I run my worlds fully in my head, I can look around and see what is going on at any time, and thus, as I did one rainy afternoon, for five or six hours, I can discuss with players how the campaign might have gone differently, how they were free to do anything they wanted to do, within the constraints of the physics of the world, such as abandon their "task", masters, friends and the world. They might have done anything, AND THE WORLD WOULD NOT HAVE ENDED, if they had just realised I could say yes to going east instead of west. What they had wanted me to say yes to was the ability to inherently understand tech in a high fantasy world, without study or preparation or experience of it. The computer said no. Friday Jones’s last blog post..Nationals

By: Mike

Mike — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 05:12:32 +0000

Excellant post, Johnn. I agree 99.95% (with a small margin of error)! I have only said “no” once in the last 20 years of gaming, and even that “no” was a “yes, but it doesn’t have the intended effect”. My players know that they can attempt just about anything (like the time one cast “blade barrier” down the throat of a purple worm, and that I will then do my best to honestly arbitrate the results of their actions. However, they also know that I won’t kill a PC unless he’s doing something stupid – in which csae, all bets are off. Even then, in most of the genres that I run (High level fantasy, superhero, pulp) death doesn’t have to mean forever – but it can be darned inconvenient.

That tiny little fraction that doesn’t agree is the one that replies, “no, because…. but….” and is reserved for situations in which the proposal has already been ruled out by the information given. I assume that the character would know that this is not a viable choice, under the circumstances. To take your example, either the Lava at the bottom gets mentioned up front (or I would tell the players that they could not see the bottom), or (when they get there) there might be a way across – anything from a stone bridge arching over the lava to a flying carpet service that charges by the square centimeter of carpet used. Under any other circumstance, there IS no lava – even if I had written down that there WAS. The challenge then is to explain where it’s gone…

One of my players has taken to using the expression “That’s our plan, tell us where it goes wrong” (after spending some time making those plans in earshot of the GM). This practice gives you time to think about the consequences of the plan as it is being hatched by the players, BEFORE the PCs try to implement it. If you encourage your players to do their thinking out loud (without penalty), you buy yourself so much lead time that you don’t have to rush your decisions.

By: Will

Will — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 16:19:16 +0000

I’ve been making a more concerted effort to do this with my D&D 4e game. The 4e rules are so precise and technical that there’s a sort of implicit “no” throughout. For example, my players have thunderwave and other push powers and are always trying to push one monster into another, push a monster into the wall for extra damage, push a monster such that he ricochets and bounces forward instead of back, etc. By the rules, none of this is even remotely possible: a push has a very specific and clearly defined effect.

So my general strategy now is either to say “Yes, because of the unusual circumstances,” or else “Yes, but you’ll need to make a check, and if you fail…” Adding such a cost/risk puts the decision back in the player’s hands. Sometimes it’s worth it to them to attempt the check and sometimes it’s not — but at least the DM isn’t totally denying a player idea.

It’s hard because I’m very worried about game balance and “unintended consequences.” But after 20 sessions I think I am finally comfortable enough with the rules to judge this sort of benefit/risk trade-off.

By: Ameron

Ameron — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 13:40:51 +0000

I find it’s important to remember that the DM’s job is not to kill the PCs (although many players may disagree). So what if they want to do something outrageous or stupid. My feeling is let them try. If it means that the PCs will have fun and it will avoid an unnecessary argument or fight, than say yes, set the DC a little bit higher than normal, and let them make the roll.

I’ve been doing this a lot and it’s fostered a lot of creativity. Now that my PCs know I’m going to let them try crazy things they’re more likely to be creative and it’s made for a lot of very memorable encounters. And for the record, they tend to flub the roll more than they make it so most of the time it doesn’t affect my plans anyway.