Comments on: Coinage in Fumanor: Windows into a campaign background

By: Mike

Mike — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 00:08:07 +0000

Glad you liked the article, Peregrine. As to your specific question regarding weight, having worked in a bank, I can state that coin trays contain a few hundred coins and as much as 50% empty space. Stacking coins without such wastage makes for a much smaller volume and hence higher weight. It should be remembered also that a cubic metre of water weighs 1 tonnne, and metal is a lot denser than water. Try lifting 20-40 trays at once and you’ll find that the weight is the same as a motorcycle engine; 200-400 trays gives something closer to the size of a car engine. Once these facts are pointed out, the numbers provided don’t seem quite so outrageous. In fact, those were the foundation assumptions behind the specific values used: that an equivalent volume to an engine would produce an equivalent weight (based on the density of steel). Adjust the density accordingly and calculate the volume aproximatly; divide the total volume by the volume of a coin plus the minimum dead space (derived from the original article) and you have the number of coins, which then gives the weight per coin.

Backpack dimensions were estimated using the size of an actual backpack that I had handy, but as you point out, the size is not the limiting factor in any event.

I made the coins so large for two reasons: I liked the idea of people cutting them in half to make change (though that has never come up since) and because there was a TV special on pirate treasure that gave the weight of a small chest full of coins at some outrageous number (500 pounds or 600 pounds, from vague memory) and gave the number of coins in the chest. The reasoning is that coinage is not a highly-advanced art; and that the existance of Dwarvish Mines implies the presence of more precious metal for them to dig out, which reduced the value of a set weight of metal.

By all means, recalculate to suit your own game world. The article was meant to expound and illustrate by example some general principles.

Have fun!

By: Peregrine John

Peregrine John — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 18:18:58 +0000

A question about weight: though the initial math seems reasonable, the specific examples given are… well, unlikely. Though even a small chest will weigh a lot when filled with coins, the idea of it weighing over a ton is going to have people seriously questioning the numbers that got to that idea. (Also, the backpack dimensions seem a bit small, if not gnomish. Day pack, mayhaps? Not that it matters in this case, as stuffing it with coins will make it (a) unliftable and (b) fall apart.) After all, bank tellers don’t need a forklift to move a tray of hundreds of quarters, which are larger than most ancient coins (though not larger than the Fumanorian coinage) and what most will be thinking of. In other words, the first thing that will come to mind, for both historically-minded and historically-ignorant players will be, “Why so huge?”

For my own world, I think I’ll resize and recalculate a bit, though a perfectly good answer would be, “Because they are.”

By: Peregrine John

Peregrine John — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:39:10 +0000

As someone who loves depth and richness in a fantasy world, I have to say that this is exactly the sort of thing that adds a whole new dimension to a campaign!

Admittedly, I have an affection for ancient coins, their effect on history, and so on, and thus some longstanding issues with the way most games (mis)handle such a basic and crucial item as currency. No bronze, that (arguably) most common anciently used metal of all? Billon (debased silver, very commonly used) may look like a stretch for most, as does most of the above article; but for a game designer to skip billon but include electrum (which is gold and silver mixed, and far, far less common) is strange. Skipping bronze is just silly.

I realize that most DMs/GMs don’t bother with ancient currency or its issues, or even exchange rates between nations, in order to simplify things. But even if they don’t go to the depth of accounting detail in the above article, some amount of it will hugely improve the depth of a world’s history and the richness of its current cultures. “Otherness” has rarely been so easy to accomplish – and the apparent complexities can be reduced to simple equations if desired.

After hitting “add comment” I’ll explore Ameron’s article. Love this stuff.

By: Mike

Mike — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 08:52:32 +0000

I appreciate the praise, Ameron. The number of comments might suggest otherwise, but I’m of the belief that we write these things not for today, but for the reader who goes looking for that one perfect insight that gets them past a current dilemmna months or even years from now. I’ll check out your blog with interest….

By: Ameron

Ameron — Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:35:00 +0000

Excellent post! Apparently today is a good day to discuss money in RPGs. In my article Your Coin is No Good Here I focus more on how introducing foreign currencies and exchange rates can be used to make your game more interesting. .-= Ameron´s last blog ..Your Coin is No Good Here =-.