Comments on: A Different Experience: A variation on the D&D 3.x Experience Points System

By: Revara

Revara — Sun, 22 Aug 2010 10:05:39 +0000

Alright, I think I got it now. Thanks for the fast reply. We just started a new campaign using this XP system and a new loot system, this system works quite well, so far.

The CR seems to fit about right, with even as little a difference as 1 CR can make the fight seem ridiculously easy or very hard, at low levels atleast.

By: Mike

Mike — Sat, 21 Aug 2010 15:26:45 +0000

Try reading it like this: Number of opponants at (CR plus 1) equals the square root of 2 times that number of opponants at CR.

So, for example:
2 enemies of CR 3 is worth the same experience as 1.414 x 2 opponants of CR 2 = 2.828 opponants of CR 2 – usually rounded to 3.
5 enemies of CR 4 is worth the same experience as 1.414 x 5 opponants of CR 3 = 7.07 opponants of CR 3 – usually rounded to 7.
5 enemies of CR 4 is also worth 5 / 1.414 opponants of CR 5 = 3.536 opponants of CR 5 – usually 3 of CR 5 and one of CR 3.

So, if you have a party of 5 characters of 4th level, a ‘fair fight’ is 5 monsters of CR 4, or 3 monsters of CR 5 and one of CR 3, or 7 of CR 3.

By: Revara

Revara — Sat, 21 Aug 2010 10:30:58 +0000

Hello, just had a look at your system and I’ll admit it appeals greatly to my nature. But I just can’t figure out what you mean by “N @ (A+1) = [sqr(2) x N] @ A.” – The @ symbol isn’t really associated with math for me.

I hope, although I’m writing more than 6 months too late, that you will answer :s

By: gryphon

gryphon — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 09:17:32 +0000

Hey, what works is all that matters.
If the players have confidence in their GM it doesn’t really matter if it is a math solution or one that consults the bones.

By: Mike

Mike — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 14:10:55 +0000

That’s fair enough comment, Gryphon. I’ve said before, and will say again, that while my approach works for me, it’s not for everyone. Thanks for sharing your alternative approach.

By: Gryphon

Gryphon — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 09:11:54 +0000

Funny when written like this I can not understand anything of what you say. Math is a language of complete mystery to me.

1/gryphon + Math = Me = < twice as dumb as the average cat

I can, and do, use a home written XP calculator, a trusty excel spread sheet. Which does make things really simple. THough it is getting a polish oon (I learned some new tricks recently)

To keep things simple, and to me that is the only way forward, I ahve to do things in simple stages.

Firstly I calculate the CR of each encounter seperately before hand, modifying it up or down as the situation requires. I don't add a bit or take a bit off as the game seems to like doing. I just increase or decrease the CR.

Equally I do not use the two CR 5 = 7 etc. pattern of increasing CR difficulty myself.

Two critters or/and encounter/environment CR are equal to the average of the two levels plus 1 (minimum of the max CR of either critter or encounter). (Traps or Environmental difficulty having a CR which can easily affect an encounter)

To go to +2 on CR you need double the number, so 2=+1, 4=+2, 8=+3 and so on.

CR of an encounter with a CR 4 & CR 2 is 4
CR of an encounter with a CR 4 & CR 4 is 5
CR of an encounter with say 16-23x CR 4 is 8

In the mention above of 512 CR4 is 13. The epics should have utterly minced them (although the environment does make it possible 1 more difficult).

Hells bells my little group of level 13 looneys used a couple of iterations of(cone of cold) in a similar situation and totally desimated the opposition. Killing one of their number as the cone intersected wit a lava flow.[boom]

I find this a LOT easier to plot into an excell spready than the origional methodology

I allocate XP to NPC as per the book but that is really easy to do as well.
I determine the party level modified for the kit they have.
I determine the total XP to allocate to the party. (NPC and 'resting' PC's/absent players count at 50%, if take part in the encounter if not they get none).
The total is then split up based on 1/Level.
Job done.

This method, while fair, is slow, it takes about three levels or more to catch up one level difference.

I am sorry but your whole approach seems over complex to me. I want this to be easy; CR for encounter, recorded against CR of party. Calculated at the end of the adventure.

By: Mike

Mike — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:40:21 +0000

I’ve never quite taken things to that extreme, either. But I did hit a duo of near-epic characters with 512 CR4 creatures (“lava ants”) at one point (Think Army Ants but they live in a volcano and only emerge when it erupts; resistant to fire & heat attacks, they swim in the lava streams, emerging to rampage and gather food, leaving the lava flow to cover their tracks). I needed a 20 to hit, the PCs needed a 1 to miss, but they could only take out a handful of them at a time. In the course of the battle, I knocked every member of the party down enough in hit points that a single additional success would have killed the target, and I still had just over 100 ants up and running. Do you think I could get that final hit? Not a chance!… it took about 45 minutes (real time) for the PCs to wipe out the opposition. They still remember that fight, 6 years later! (It was one of the first run using the ELs Match system, and not all of the bugs were out of it at the time.) (For the record, the EL is 22, and the PCs had an EL of 21). [PS: I rolled each ant's attack every time, in front of the players! They were really sweating those last hundred or so rolls...]

By: Noumenon

Noumenon — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:56:45 +0000

I’ve never had an opportunity to try it with say, twenty CR 1/10, because Goodman Games doesn’t make encounters like that and the DMG discourages it too. As does the existence of Fireball. I’d like to try it though.

By: Mike

Mike — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:35:07 +0000

That’s exactly the sort of observation that led to my developing this system. I also noticed that it didn’t always work at low CRs, which is part of what I meant when I described the system as inconsistant. I think they may have fixed that in 3.5, I havn’t checked it.

By: Noumenon

Noumenon — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 20:56:27 +0000

Y’know, I wasn’t paying close attention, but it is a handy tip that one CR 6 equals √2 CR 5’s.

I do have a nice shorthand way of doing this, which I’m sure you won’t take up but here it is: You just add up the numbers on page 38 of the DMG until you get to the CR you want.

Like if a CR 8 encounter for your party is worth 2400 XP, you can just add up lower CRs till you get to 2400 XP. Four CR 4s at 600 XP each, for example, or three CR 5s at 800 XP each. It ends up working out exactly the same as the big complicated table on page 49. Now that’s simple.